all right. time for one quick e-mail in new york. john tower, what do we got. >> dennis on twitter goes willie i couldn't sleep, waiting for vice president's biden speech tonight like a kid on chis mass morning. >> vice president biden will be introducing the president tonight in prime time.

can he top bill clinton's 48 minutes last night? god knows he'll try. "morning joe" starts right now. romo flushed out of the pocket, throwing on the run, wide opening making the catch. >> that's the america that we could be. but that's not the america that we should be and it's not who we are. >> here goes bradshaw and a good time for the running game to kick into gear. >> no governor romney, corporations are not people. >> short drop by romo. to the outside he goes. and it is miles austin for the touchdown. >>. ♪ yesterday's gone yesterday's gone ♪ ♪ don't stop thinking about tomorrow ♪ >> president obama started with a much weaker economy than i did. listen to me now.

no president, no president, not me, not any of my predecessors, no one could have fully repaired all the damage that he found in just four years. >> welcome to "morning joe" live from the democratic national convention. we make the blackfinn salon our home here for the entire week in charlotte, north carolina. >> boy, that's a line, isn't it? >> >> yeah, it is. with us on set here at the bar, we have msnbc and "time" magazine senior political analyst mark halperin, national affairs editor for new york magazine and msnbc political analyst john heilemann and pulitzer-prize winning historian jon meacham the author of "thomas jefferson, the art of power." meacham, good to have you on

board this morning. >> thank you, ma'am. >> you look very elegant and we're at at bar. >> i've been here since last night. >> he's a suwannee man. >> i'm not wearing -- well, pastel. >> well -- >> it's very kennebunkport. >> sort of not what you said before the show. we won't go there. >> let's ask quickly, john, "the new york times" already this morning is saying that the speech last night was a highlight, one of the highlights of bill clinton's career. put last night in perspective for us as far as historically for bill clinton and also what it's going to mean for the rest of this election? >> well, most real-life posthumous blessings come from just endorsements and former presidents great for the party reaching down and reaching into the present and saying this is okay, this is the person who will carry the torch. here you had a guy offering the blessing in full paragraphs with everything except white board

and power point. i thought it was a remarkable speech in the sense of he continues to hold that remarkable capacity he held as president to explain. you can agree or disagree and a lot of folks like to say he went on too long, but remember that 1995 state of the union where everybody in the press thought, actually still going on -- >> it is still going on. >> but he talked for an hour and a half or whatever and the political class hated it and america loved it. >> i would always laugh in those early state of the union addresses in '95 and '96 he went on so long, i would watch from the back, go in the cloak room, sleep 30 minutes, i would come back out and he was still going. and it -- it stunned me that his approval ratings would always shoot up. let's talk about what it means moving forward, mark and jon, because the reviews last night across the board are pretty stunning. certainly people on our network

loved it. you had brit human on fox saying it -- brit hume on fox saying it was one of the best speeches he's ever seen from one of the best politicians he's seen. lavished praise. on cnn, alex cost lan no who ran romney's campaign four years ago, saying nice things, saying this is the moment we would look back and realize that barack obama secured the november election. that a bit of hyperbole, but apparently this speech, everybody says it was just extraordinary. >> i'll start with the cliche. there's no one like bill clinton that's been in our lifetime. what's going to be more potent about last night he's going to take that on the road and when he gives a version of that, may give longer versions, last night may be the cliff notes version, but when he gives that in des

moines, iowa, or roanoke, virginia, imagine the press coverage he's going to get and he's speaking to two audiences at once the way he can. middle-class voters, and the base of the democratic party. and the romney campaign has no rebuttal. i read a lot of conservative commentary, tweets, hoping this storm passes and they don't have to deal with bill clinton anymore. he's going to be on the road doing that in the fall. >> there is no rebuttal, jon, and i go back to the rich lowry comment, saying i can't remember republicans crying, which was rich's way i think suddenly of saying, where are our great speakers? let's go back and look how quickly things -- how rapidly things have changed over the past couple years. four years ago, in south carolina, the obama team painted bill clinton as a racist, as a bigot, as a race baiter, and here we are four years later,

bill clinton coming on the stage, doing some pretty remarkable things for the man whose team suggested he was a racist. >> say three things. first thing directly addressing that. actually the fact that there is all that bad blood, the fact that he even today bill clinton doesn't really like barack obama that much, personally, makes the speech that much more powerful. because he's testifying on what his -- >> and he's admitted to brian williams last night, he told brian williams, we're not close friends. >> not good friends. >> it's more powerful to have someone who is a former enemy of yours stand up and make the case for you than someone who's always been your blood brother. that's the first thing. the second thing to the point about romney's campaign not having a rebuttal, it's worse than that. they made, i think, respect to bill clinton, a huge blunder by elevating him. they've had clinton in how many ads so far, pointed to clinton as this is the good kind of democrat, not barack obama kind of democrat. they prevalidated bill clinton

and now what are you going to say having elevated clinton as the good democrat, he now comes out and makes this case for obama, what will they say, all those ads we ran citing bill clinton being great on the economy, we're going to trash him. doesn't work. the third thing, one of clinton's great skills never actually been the most inspiring order, inspiration is not his thing. distillation of the case is his thing and the thing that he did last night, where he stood up and said, here's what the republican argument is, we made this huge mess, now this guy hasn't -- has not fixed it quick enough so put us back in power and then said, no president, including me, could have repaired all this damage in just four years. is it a concise, precise argument that barack obama has not made with that level of potency and clarity and the kind of thing that will actually matter to a lot of swing voters and it makes obama's -- going back and saying look at the depth of the hole, bill clinton

is saying that barack obama was in so deep that he couldn't have fixed it all in four years that matters. >> the democrats have the most popular person in the world who happens to be a former president to have as a weapon here, makes you think of who the republicans had at their convention and where was george w. bush? of course he was hidden away, right? it's awkward to think about. can you imagine? >> part of that, the fact that george w. bush doesn't really like politics. >> well, that and -- >> he never has -- >> and this happens with presidents. he'll be around four years from now, eight years from now, but i thought -- first of all, bill clinton, you're right he's not teddy kennedy talking about the dream. >> or barack obama. >> or ronald reagan. he's just not that kind of speaker. he's a good southern lawyer. but mark, i wanted to go to something you said last night talking about just how progressive these delegates are.

and you suggested that perhaps they're more progressive here than republicans or conservatives in tampa. these are really, really liberal delegates. bill clinton, with what he did last night coming back, i think reminding a lot of democrats who want to win again, and the "times" talked about this, let's remember, we win in the center, let's pull back to the center. i think that was a great touch for this convention too, especially after elizabeth warren who really sounded -- and we love elizabeth -- i love her, really sounded progressive, really sounded populace. >> fantastic. >> in a way that might worry some people in the middle of the electorate. >> with apologies to the people on sirius xm the republican party has moved over here to the right in terms of the tea party and the party today. what bill clinton did last night was flood his party into the

center and push the republicans even further to the right and kate brown, that barack obama has for a variety of reasons not been able to -- >> we always hear about the republican delegates. it's the tea party. these delegates here, i love them, but man, they are liberal. >> have you noticed that? >> no. we can talk about -- >> i love them. they love us. we walk down the street, they're really kind. this is not personal. i'm just saying, the media is not reporting that these delegates are more progressive than any delegates i've seen at a democratic convention. >> they are. but they listen to, you know, the classic democrat bill clinton talk yesterday and he found a way to say stuff they would like and be on board for and also people at home, the swing audience. one thing bill clinton did that was brilliant as he likes to say if you see a turtle on a fence post it didn't get there by

itself, he went way into 11:00 eastern, 10:00 central, everybody who turned on to watch local news was going to see bill clinton, unmediated, unfiltered basically 20-minute, 11:20 infomercial for the democratic party as a centrist party, the republican party as too far to the right. >> all those people trying to avoid the convention, that's how they don't -- little they care about politics, forced down their throat by bill clinton. >> for all the complaints about this not being a serious campaign, you called it the campaign about nothing, the "seinfeld" campaign, it was about everything last night. it was about issues. she wasn't talking about the side distractions, gaffes, sometimes the press get caught up in. he gave a policy speech, wonky, going point by point these are the things that matter, talking about the economy, jobs, here's what president obama does for it. >> speaking for nearly an hour, a long speech, he's done it before, clinton offered a methodical point by point defense of president obama, refuting the lines of attack

launched by republicans at their own convention last week. take a look. >> when congressman ryan looked into that tv camera and attacked president obama's medicare savings as, quote, the biggest, coldest, power play, i didn't know whether to laugh or cry. because that $716 billion is exactly to the dollar the same amount of medicare savings that he has in his own budget! you ought to get one thing, it takes some brass to attack a guy for doing what you did. the claim that president obama weakened welfare reform work requirement is just not true. but -- they keep on running ads

claiming it. you want to know why? their campaign pollster said, we are not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers. now -- finally, i can say, that is true. >> you know, jon, when he goes, i don't know whether to laugh or cry, i mean that's -- that's the male equivalent in the south of a woman saying, bless her heart. >> bless her heart. >> that means you're dead. >> i'm going to kill you. >> bless your heart. >> but he -- but he -- >> bill clinton is steel magnolia. >> exactly. but he delivered a great message. a centrist message, to again, a fairly progressive group. >> one thing i think is

interesting historically, here you have a hugely progressive party, yet the democratic party is the party with patriarchs. >> right. >> and you think back, you know, eisenhower said i'll think of something and give me a week and i'll think of something richard nixon did, because of president reagan's health, he could not play that role, except for the '92 convention, by '96 he was fighting alzheimer's. president bush '41 has chosen to stay out of the -- as he puts it the op-ed business with that hand. and so you just had -- you've had nixon, ford, just never for all the various reasons we know, have never played that role. interestingly you have a democratic party that tends to argue against this kind of hereditary role and you have an extraordinary hereditary leader. >> look at the stage here as president clinton closed, president obama walked on to a

stage to a thunderous applause. clinton bowed for a moment before they embraced and waved to the delegates. president obama, of course, delivers his acceptance speech tomorrow night. i was thinking of something you said somewhere along the way yesterday, about you don't necessarily agree with the way president obama is governing, but they do put on a great convention. >> listen, it remains in question, it is a question for historians like jon meacham to decide after he leaves office, whether barack obama's people know how to run the federal government. >> oh, stop it. >> no. i'm dead serious. there is a big question mark hanging over the fact, whether they know how to run washington, whether they know how to run the economy, and as the president himself said, he still has an incomplete grade. there is no doubt, willie, these people know how to put on a convention. >> yeah. >> they know how to run a general election campaign. [ applause ]

>> and it's just a reality. >> they agree with you, joe. >> reality conservative journalists will say, there is no comparison between tampa and charlotte, the republicans have been lapped in stage craft, in speech writing, speech performances, in every way. >> and we haven't even heard yet from the president of the united states or vice president biden. but they have the benefit of having some of the greatest speakers, arguably, in the history of politics, bill clinton, president obama, you could add michele obama to that list now. >> oh, my gosh. the reaction from that speech has been -- i mean i have heard from people from all walks of life who were completely moved by that speech and brought to tears. i don't even think they expected it to be that good. she was excellent. >> yeah. >> it was her execution that just brought it home. >> her speech was tough. she delivered it well. >> hours before last night's big speeches there was an awkward and unexpected moment on the convention floor, amid criticism from mitt romney, and other top

republicans, democrats held a last-minute vote to reinsert the word "god" into the party platform and to declare jerusalem the capital of israel. >> the matter requires a two-thirds vote in the affirmative. all those delegates in favor, say aye. all those delegates opposed say no. >> in the opinion of the -- let me do that again. all of those delegates in favor, say aye. >> aye. >> all those delegates opposed say no. >> no. >> i, um, i guess -- you got to let them do what they're going

to do. >> i'll do that one more time. all those delegates in favor, say aye. >> aye. >> all those delegates opposed say no. >> no. >> in the opinion of the chair two-thirds have voted in the affirmative, the motion is adopted and the platform has been amended as shown on the screen. >> it's a "saturday night live" skit. >> that did not happen. what? >> so very embarrassing moment again going back to the makeup of the delegates. you were talking about yesterday, somebody took "god" out of the platform. republicans pounced on it. and a lot of awkward moments for democrats throughout the day, trying to explain this while mitt romney and others were attacking. >> what happened? >> still not entirely clear to me how those two -- those two changes were made. it caused a lot of concern amongst some supporters of israel and the democrats went to

pains to say this changed because the president wanted it changed. >> they took out god in god giveth. >> platform without the use of the word. >> why did they do that? who said let's just go ahead and scrub all mentions of god from the platform because that will really help us win in missouri? >> you know -- >> that will do it in the swing states. >> republicans were going full on this yesterday and john -- >> wait. missouri and north carolina, you know how many southern baptist preachers there are in this state and there are a few democrats who are southern baptist as well. again, it's -- it shows the delegate s versus the democrati vote. >> they're saying that moment is going to be used throughout the rest of the election. >> well no. >> they changed the platform. i don't think it's liberal bias in the media that says, this story is pretty much done because they fixed it. >> the president fixed it. >> it is a bit embarrassing for

sure and if bill clinton hadn't blotted out everything else with his speech that might get -- >> jon meacham, you wrote a book on the founding fathers and religion and, you know -- there are a lot of founding fathers that knew they had to talk about god and faith to help them blot out other things in their own personal background. but the democrats in 2012 learned once again what politicians in 1776 have figured out, that it's -- it's not a good thing to turn your back on even -- even mentions, shallow mentions of faith. >> you know, it's -- these things come up in times of stress. the founding era, obviously, not the calmest time. >> right. >> so there was a rise in public religion "in god we trust" was inserted, "under god we pledge" inserted during the cold war. we have an american tradition of

making public afterfirmations of a -- afir mamations in the beli of the almighty, human rights come from above so no man can tamper with them. >> jefferson. go to the jefferson memorial. one of his famous quotes. >> despite the best efforts of people to rebaptize him, he was not in any way an evangelical christian at all. but he believed in giving a nod to the idea that human rights were sacred. >> right. >> and that's just been part of the political dialog forever. >> all right. we have to go to break. you all are starting to pull a bill clinton here. >> we're going to talk about elizabeth warren coming up. she had a great speech. also -- >> okay. >> senior adviser to the obama campaign, david axelrod, kirsten gillibrand, congressman barney

frank and democratic senator jim clyburn, tom brokaw, chuck todd, david gregory, up next jim vandehei. barnicle is drinking again. oh, no. okay. but first let's go to bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> we love mike. good morning, everyone. the weather headline is down in the gulf of mexico. could we have tropical trouble developing once again? the hurricane center is investigating this area, could send a hurricane hunter aircraft out there. this is off the coast of louisiana. it would be slow development, if anything, in the general motion would be towards florida and about three or four days from now. so it has a couple days to get its act together. let's hope it doesn't. two hurricanes in the tropics, including hurricane michael which is now a major hurricane. the michael storm not going to be a problem at all for anyone in the united states or canada. now lesley is going to brush bermuda and head to the canadian maritime. it's going to send large waves

to the eastern coast of the u.s., but no rip curredirect th rain. the humidity still very high from d.c. southwards down through the southeast. looks like we will spark a few thunderstorms from the southeast, especially north carolina, some beneficial rains today in missouri. but we can't get that rain yet down in texas or oklahoma. still brutally hot. it's going to be 103 degrees today in dallas. thankfully for areas of oklahoma and texas, you will cool off this upcoming weekend back into the 80s. it's about time. charlotte, chance of thunderstorms once again this afternoon, typical summertime weather for you. we'll have more from charlotte coming up here on "morning joe," we're brewed by starbucks. [ "human" by the human league playing ] humans. we mean well, but we're imperfect creatures

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guzzle down billions in profits. billionaires pay lower tax rates than their secretaries and wall street ceos, the same ones who wrecked our economy and destroyed millions of jobs, still strut around congress, no shame, demanding favors, and acting like we should thank them. does anyone here have a problem with that? well, i do too. i do too. mitt romney's the guy who said, corporations are people. no, governor romney, corporations are not people. people have hearts, they have kids, they get jobs, they get sick, they cry, they dance, they live, they love, and they die. and that matters.

>> welcome back inside the blackfinn salon. that was elizabeth warren speaking in prime time. >> that was good. >> what did you think? >> i thought it was fantastic. didn't you, meacham? i mean she really i think frames the problems that are plaguing this country and the middle class. >> that was really great. >> jon, what do you think? >> i thought she did will and i think it was interesting, jim and i were talking about this, you couldn't imagine two speeches more different than her speech and bill clinton's speech. that, even the bites we showed, bill clinton didn't say a bad word about business let alone attacking wall street ceo. he talked about the democratic party built around cooperation and business. that's a '90s message. she's a much more up-to-date message. they both work. >> they delivered. >> jim vandehei is back with us.

she waubs the walk. she lives the issues so she pulled that speech off last night in night. >> no doubt she does. she reflects the democratic party of today and this convention. i agree with everything you said about the bill clinton speech. here's where i disagree, it's not going to move an election. might move everybody on this set today. it's not going to make a big difference. it's barack obama versus mitt romney. such sturdy wisconsin midwest logic. >> from the democratic party of today. listen to every other speech you've heard at this convention. doesn't sound anything like bill clinton. bill clinton didn't attack bain, capitalism, didn't talk about abortion, gay marriage. he's talking about his -- he's speaking like it's 1999 and no doubt that resonates. >> talk about the speeches. outside of prime time, it sounds like you're saying what we said last segment, this is a very

progressive group of delegates, they're moving -- they're setting up a 2004 election. >> let's take abortion. the entire day, in almost every speech, they're talking about abortion. and if you think about where public polling is on abortion where the country is very divided, you have the party offering a full throated defense of the right to have abortion, sort of any time, anywhere, which if you think about where politics is today that's as extreme a position on the left as republicans have taken on the right. if you're in a state like north carolina, where social issues still do matter to swing voters, i do wonder if that hurts them or helps them given it's going to come down to ten states some of them have a lot of people who are in the middle who are authentically undecided. i think that's different from bill clinton. bill clinton would not prescribe many of the content of many of the speeches you've heard. you can do this in a good way,

be pro business, but also pro people and figure out the right calibration. the brilliance of bill clinton, he, unlike almost any other politician in our lifetime, almost always finds that calibration that appeals to liberals and centers. >> doesn't have to put himself out there. elizabeth warren put herself out there. >> bill clinton knew how to reach democratic voters in north carolina, in virginia, in tennessee, in arkansas, across the southeast. he didn't always win those states but that's a gift he had and again, i wonder if we're going to see the president tonight realize that he needs to move a bit more to the center away from some of the things that jim was saying the democrats have been talking about this week. >> one of the reasons barack obama is president obama, is that he did learn the lessons of the '90s in 2008. remember this was not a radical left wing campaign. >> right. >> he didn't talk about guns.

he didn't talk about abortion. he didn't talk about gay marriage. he ran a very kind of jfk-esque we're going to solve this. we weren't going to have partisanship anymore. >> thank god. willie, weren't you tired of partisansh partisanship, thank god it went away. >> obama learned the clinton lessons in '08, i disagree with jim a little bit, in so far you have swing voters who realize the ads are all wrong, people get that, and if, you know, in so far as they were paying attention beyond the dallas beating new york, they're going to remember clinton vouched for this guy and clinton is a pretty good guy, let's take another look at him. >> that's the authentic question, in a second term would he govern like bill clinton or elizabeth warren. >> we've been saying that for two years and everyone here still believes it's true, the economy is the thing that ultimately matters most to these

people. i can't imagine there are that many undecided voters for whom the issue is the abortion issue, democratic party too far left, republican party who doesn't want abortions in the cases of rape and incest. i think they're going to make a decision on who will be able to deliver prosperity for hard-pressed voters who still can't decide between the two visions. >> it comes down to, do they think it will be more like bill clinton or elizabeth warren. it's a good question. we cover him all the time. i don't know how he would govern in a second term. i don't know how any of us do. he hasn't talked, just like republicans didn't talk with any specificity what the next four years would look like. >> that is still the same question on the romney side. asking the same question, romney is going to governor like the moderate governor of massachusetts or a far right nut. asking the same question on both sides. >> certainly not pulling george w. bush out to talk. >> she's just obsessed on george w. bush. why don't you start talking

about weapons of mass destruction. >> from their own party to talk. it's not because he doesn't like politics. because they don't want to show his face. >> you're not surprised. >> am i right? [ applause ] p. >> i guarantee you -- i guarantee you, we care a whole lot more about george w. plabus place in politics than george w. bush. he was watching the cowboys last night. >> examinicoming up next, the n giants took on the cowboys competing with bill clinton. how it ended when we come back to charlotte. these fellas used capital one venture miles for a golf getaway. double miles you can actually use... but mr. single miles can't join his friends because he's getting hit with blackouts. shame on you. now he's stuck in a miniature nightmare.

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wow. >> return to the blackfinn salon in charlotte. the nfl season under way. a lot of you watching president clinton on nbc, the cowboys were playing the giants at the mea w meadowlands. cowboys driving at the second quarter, romo picked off. couple guys miss, nice moves in the open field by a linebacker, takes it down to the 5. he was horse tackled. turns out to be a good penalty because the giants could not punch it in, settle for a field

goal. over a minute left in the first half, romo buys himself time out of the pocket, 10-yard touchdown pass to kevin ogletree, two touchdowns in the game. dallas up 7-3. cowboys trying to put it away in the fourth quarter. nice throw and catch but also some bad d. tony romo to miles austin between a couple defenders. cowboys up two touchdowns less than six minutes to play but eli did lead the giants back. less than three to play now, eli going to drop back. nine-yard scoring pass. mar tell lus bennett, that cuts the lead to seven in the fourth quarter with over two minutes to play. clock winding down, giants had to have a stop on this play. third and ten. but romo finds ogletree for the first down and then kneel down time for dallas. giants become the first defending champ to drop their opener since the broncos in '99. cowboys win. romo 307 yards, three touchdowns and kech ogletree, get that guy

on your fantasy team, might be too late, not far from where he grew up in queens, new york. breakout game, two touchdowns, 114 yards, those two touchdowns the first of his nfl career. >> willie, i've been hearing a lot of people in the offseason talking about the cowboys, so many disappointing seasons lately, looked good last night. what's different between the cowboys in 2012 and 2011 and why are people picking them? >> good defense, showed them last night. held the giants to ten points until late in the fourth quarter and also they have this running back demarco murray, huge game, got hurt last season, if he's there all year he will look good. >> we've got to do the red sox story. >> leave him alone. >> we have to. >> what happened, barnicle? >> we love bobbie valentine, found himself -- well this morning, battling a little controversy. some say he may have, i don't know, threatened is a strong word. >> did he threaten someone in. >> he didn't threaten anybody. boston radio yesterday weekly

appearance on weei's "the big show" valentine lashed out after he was asked about his work ethic. listen. >> maybe you've kind of checked out. have you checked out of this? >> what an embarrassing thing to say. you know, if i was there i would punch you right in the mouth, how does that sound. like i checked out? what an embarrassing thing. why would somebody even -- that's stuff that a comic strip person would write. i think you learn from misery, you learn from challenges. you learn from failures as well as you learn from success. so, you know, this is what i chose to do and i think it's been miserable, but i also think it's also been part of my life's journey. >> all right. >> that's a threat? >> little context here. >> mike barnicle, his weekly radio show. >> yes. >> knows the host. maybe kidding around about it, punch you in the mouth. >> yes. >> punch your lights out if you

say that. >> this is news you can't use. >> beating the crap out -- >> didn't sound like a joke. that's what great jokesteres they are. >> he is also, they go after him during the course of that interview about the fact that they deemed him to be late for a game one day last week in oakland, because he arrived at 4:00 p.m. instead of 3:30. he got tied up in traffic, picking up his son at the airport. leave him alone! >> why do these boston radio hosts hate little kids? i would like to know. seriously, bobbie v., let's just face it, okay, this team stunk it up. last year in september, they quit on fans all across new england. they stunk. >> they quit on tito. >> bobbie v. comes in. they were after bobbie v. week one in boston. this guy has been treated so unfairly. they need to look in the clubhouse and look at the punks on the red sox who for the past year -- >> they did. they're all playing for the dodgers now. >> i know.

seriously. maybe we should send some more people. bobbie v. is being set up. >> he's been so unfairly maligned it's outraces you. if you continue to do this i'm going to punch your lights out. >> if you don't be quiet and let gous to break i'm going to punch you in the mouth. >> yankees won. four games this weekend in baltimore. still ahead lawrence o'donnell and richard wolffe. up next michael steele. mika's must-read opinion pages. we'll be back live from the blackfinn salon. -- salon. welcome aboard!

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♪ ♪ when you fall out of the nest you made a mistake, flew all the way back ♪ ♪ >> welcome back to "morning joe." it is 47 past the hour. that's where it's all going to happen tonight. president obama will make his speech. we've had some great speeches, though, already in the convention. boy, the democrats know how to put on a convention. let's now do the must-read opinion pages, shall we? >> shocking when you say that. i mean it's like -- it's surprising when bill clinton says nice things about barack obama, despite the fact that they're not close things. when you say -- if you say the democrats did something wrong -- >> nixon has gone to -- >> just walked down the stairs in peking. >> why don't you say it. you tell me which convention is

more hip, vibrant, more alive, more connecting, the democrats or the one last week in tampa? >> so michael gurson wrote in his op-ed, clinton shows he's no obama. >> and he says this -- why am i not surprised? >> imagine that. >> yeah.

>> well -- >> he does like himself a lot. >> when did you pick that up? >> he's just like -- lasters in it. >> there's a lot to lather in i hear. so michael steele, we've been talking this morning about how bill clinton seen the poll of the progressive group of delegates on this floor to the center. his message is the winning message for democrats and you wonder whether barack obama follows it up tonight or whether he speaks more to a very progressive delegate. >> first off, no one does clinton better than clinton. when he walked out on that stage he owned it and he was back in his groove. you can tell where he was going to go. whoever was running the teleprompter couldn't keep up, gave up and let him do his thing. but he put a tone out there. he did set a message. there were two democratic parties in that hall last night. there was the one that we heard with the speeches from earlier in the evening and earlier in the week and then there was the one that bill clinton anchored

when he was president. the dnc wing of the party. >> you say there's two. other than bill clinton i didn't know anybody who was giving a dlc type centrist speech in this consfleengs they haven't. he was representing that voice still within the democratic party that still appeals to those blue collar, white male voters. >> and -- >> who knows obama is going to need. he's looking at the numbers and going, dude, you don't have these guys standing over here in the corner. they would like to go some place, here's an opportunity to bring them in. the republicans appealed last week to your point, they didn't need to be cool and hip. what they needed to be was sharp on the money and appealing to those very voters that are not buying what obama is currently selling. >> so mark, i guess the important question this morning is, does barack obama tack towards the center of the speech tonight? because he has to win north carolina. doesn't have to. but he needs to win north

carolina and virginia and ohio and colorado, and nevada. some states where there are a lot of independent, moderate swing voters. >> we don't know much about what the president is going to say. they've been careful to keep it under wraps. my instinct is he's going to unveil if not some new policy proposals, paint a more vivid picture than he has to date about a second term. on deficit reduction, particularly tax cuts for the wealthiest and on issues involving investment and entitlements, the democrats sort of have more of the center than the republicans. they haven't been able to effectively make that argument. i think president obama will be looking to reach the same voters as bill clinton did, little base inspiration, a lot of trying to find swing voters and the center, but i don't think he's going to do a clinton-type speech, more of a vision of his own.

>> all right. >> wanted to read charles but alex is getting -- >> yelling at you. >> he's changing. he's changed since he took some -- a few days off and came back a different man. >> few days off. few months off. i wish he was dedicated to this show. >> whatever, executive producer. >> think of a time i took more than one day off. >> he told me he would punch me in my mouth if i didn't toss to willie. >> what are we looking at here? that's the question. >> the "morning joe" sand castle and now something bigger and more epic. we'll explain what you're seeing here when we come back to charlotte. >> oh. >> what is it? 'shaen std.

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we're downstairs here from the blackfinn saloon and might have noticed a giant sand castle behind me. yes in the likeness of president obama. that's 15 1/2 tons of south carolina sand brought in to make that. and look who's just putting the finishing tuchouches on it. mike barnicle, the detail excites me the most. you've done a great job. >> thank you. >> joined by the mayor of north

carolina. your town has had a remarkable summer. >> we've invested in marketing and this is what this is about, being able to give attention to myrtirtyrtle beach. it's not so much about what part because we're more of a nonpartisan community. but so we invest in marketing and that's what's helped us out, to come out of the recession. >> myrtle beach only a three hour drive southeast of charlotte. mayor, thanks very much. >> how about this, willie. >> you got my vote. >> thanks so much. straight ahead on "morning joe," tom brokaw, lawrence o'donnell, richard wolffe, katty kay, when we return to charlotte. ♪

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i want to nominate a man who's cool on the outside, but who burns for america on the inside. by the way, after last night, i want a man who had the good sense to marry michele obama. >> cute.

welcome back to "morning joe." it is top of the hour. we're live at the blackfinn saloon. does anybody here need a cup of black coffee this morning? katty kay, she's still -- well okay. she's here. joining us on the set, nbc new's tom brokaw. good morning. host of nbc's "the last word on" msnbc lawrence o'donnell. lawrence -- >> good to be here. >> good to have you here. i can't wait to hear everything you have to say. >> okay. will you be taking notes this time? >> oh, yeah, i would. >> msnbc political analyst and contributor richard wolffe. and washington anchor for bbc world news america, katty kay. katty, still lit up this morning. how are you doing? >> couple more espressos, i'll be doing fine. >> we're hurting. but maybe not as much as bob rubin, perhaps. >> bob rubin. >> oh, my gosh. >> there was a party at the top of the hotel yesterday that has a very sleek, modern hotel, and the glass is not exactly clear

in terms of where you are walk through and step next. so bob, former secretary of the treasury, has a lot of people around him, stepped confidently into the party room and deeply into the pool. >> oh, wow. >> wow. >> which proves he no longer walks on water. >> also proves conventions are a lot more exciting. >> but the best part of the story is, just walked out of the pool, sat with drinks and continued talking. >> exactly. >> cool on the outside and cool on the inside. >> and on the inside as well. and lawrence, last night, bill clinton just lit it up. >> he did. they had him slotted for 24 minutes. that's what they originally scheduled it for. he did exactly double that. one calculation, houston chronicle did, 40%, 40% of the speech, was ab libbed. and he was doing it at the beginning and the end of pretty

much every paragraph in the speech and that's where the speech really got its momentum, that's where it really got all of its life. >> so, richard, what did you see last night with bill clinton? we're talking about this divide between republican -- i mean, between the democratic base, the democrats on the floor and this very centrist product of the 1990s. >> well, you know, this was a president, president obama, who -- whose version of health care, big thing he bet his health care on, was a much more centrist approach to health care than bill clinton. funny how the prism on the two presidents have shifted. you have the idea that bill clinton is a pro business president any more than this one is a little bit distorted. we're in different times. we're in -- if we went through a kind of 9/11 of economic crisis, and there is the precrisis and

post--crisis mindset. that's what president obama has had to deal with. the rhetoric is different. i like the contrast between this week and last week for democrats. bill clinton did was paint a much more optimistic progressive future, never mind about the progressive politics but an optimistic vision of where this country is going, whereas last week republicans fell into a trap of saying everything is going to hell, it's not very attractive. that was a big contrast that bill clinton managed to describe last night. >> and he really got a rock star welcome. and by the end, when obama came out on stage, again, the stage craft to this, it was very effective. was it not? >> it was really a passing of the mantle from the former president to the current president and, you know, amongst this kind of an optimistic vision of the future, that bill clinton painted and, of course, reviving several times, his own presidency and how much more

positive that had been as well, i was struck by how hard he took on the republicans for being obstructionists. this is something that delegates here say they wished the white house had done more of, but which barack obama has kind of, you know, shied away from a little bit, reminding voters of just how many times the republicans have stopped barack obama from doing the kinds of things he wanted to do. but bill clinton went straight for it. >> bill clinton countered issue by issue, the core republican question of whether or not americans are better off under president obama, getting one of his biggest applause lines on the issue of debt. >> the romney plan fails the first test of fiscal responsibility. the numbers just don't add up. i mean, consider this, what would you do if you had this problem, somebody says we got a big debt problem, we have to reduce the debt. what's the first thing he says we're going to do.

to reduce the debt we'll have another $5 trillion in tax cuts. heavily weighted to upper income people. so we'll make the debt hole bigger before we start to get out of it. now, when you say what are you going to do about this $5 trillion, you just added on, they say we'll make it up, by eliminating loopholes in the tax code. so then you ask, well, which loopholes and how much? you know what they say? see me about that after the election. now people ask me all the time, how we got four surplus budgets in a row? what new ideas did we bring to washington. i always give a one word answer. arithmetic. >> so, lawrence, i'm glad you're here, because here we have bill clinton, the centrist democrat, the, you know, the pro business democrat, and i look at bill clinton thinking, and i hear a

lot of republicans saying this, oh, he's a good democrat. just like you heard democrats say after ronald reagan passed away, oh, back when ronald reagan -- he was a good republican. but you look at hillary and bill and you go from '93/ '94 when it was the middle -- these guys have progressed to a -- this new place nobody would have imagined. >> the good democrat that republicans admire who did the biggest tax increase in history. >> and you've got -- >> without a single republican vote. and who then went on a health care crusade in which there was a conscience, conscience choice made to not try to get any republican votes which is part of why the whole thing collapsed. so there was -- this notion, the compromise was great and it's necessary, but there wasn't really that much of it during the clinton administration. as that speech would have suggested. he couldn't stand up there and say, here's all the models of where i compromised successfully

with republicans. >> certainly not in '93 and '94. >> the world trade agreement and nafta, two things no one in that audience wants to hear about, bill clinton did that with republicans in the first two years. >> we were asking before, what does a second obama term look like or a romney term? bill clinton figured out at some point he just had to deal with republicans who were trying to kill him politically, don't you think president obama, if he gets re-elected and republicans keep the house, is going to -- everybody in d.c. are going to have to figure out how do they take care of the fiscal cliff, how do they fix health care reform? there's really no option, is there. >> and they will. first of all, they'll have to probably go off the fiscal cliff on january 1st and then figure out some really quick legislative fix which both sides are working on. they're working on what do we

propose on january 2 nd after we've gone off the fiscal cliff. they know that will force them into a room and will be the only thing that will force them into a room. >> richard and katty, why should we believe if president obama does get a second term, things will be different. if republicans feel like over the first four years it's worked to be stubborn and not play along, why would they change that tactic over the next four years. >> you would think if you keep getting beaten you would change, but look, this is a president who sat down with john boehner to do the grand bargain, so the idea he hasn't been reaching out here, hasn't reached out to republicans, hasn't taken up their ideas, that's just not true. what's different is that john boehner could not take his own leadership, never mind his own party with him. the question is whether the dynamic in the republican party changes. why would that change, even if they lose this time around. >> you know why it would change? because the guy and women on wall street, say to him, you know what, the economy is going to go up, the bond traders are

going to turn on the dollar, things are going to get ugly fast. at some point katty, reality has to set in. >> when it comes to the fiscal cliff that's something they will manage to get fixed in the first three months of next year. when it comes to the bigger things that america needs to do whether where there is going have to be compromise on entitlement reform even if mitt romney gets elected is he going to make the cuts he said he's going to make if he doesn't have the democrats on side? it's hard to see how politically he's going to do that or either side to do that. listen, the days of bill clinton in some era when they had this great compromise, they got a couple things done. it was also the time of the vast right wing conspiracy. >> looking at you -- >> those were the days. but the thing is, i always talk about how we got so many things right. you know, balance a budget for the first time in a generation, four years in a row for the first time since the 1920s, welfare reform, so many things, 21 million new jobs, the

republicans hated the president, the president hated the republicans and we impeached him. >> nice move. >> and things kept moving toward. >> it's not easy to think of a -- >> you did not have the economic crisis that barack obama inherited in 2008. it was a different era. >> we had a chief executive, lawrence, who grew up in a state and was governor in a state republicans tried to kill him politically his entire life and he knew how to navigate those waters. i suspect barack obama's learned a few things over the past fou years too. >> sure. but i guess the real question for barack obama's second term is what does the congress look like? how many republicans get re-elected? what kind of margins do they hold the house, with what kind of margins. do they get the senate. if they don't get the senate it's going to be close. so you're left with, joe, you have to help us with this, what is the republican interpretation of the election. if president obama wins. is it a repudiation.

what adjustment do they make? that's the adjustment everyone's going to wonder about. >> we have a lot of friends in the white house and we said early on, and reminded them, every time a new president gets elected they believe it's the end of history. that everybody that was ever president before, somehow just wasn't smart enough or gifted enough and they've cracked the code. and i think it took the white house a couple years, for instance, to reach out to bill clinton. the republicans talk if mitt romney wins, that they've cracked the code, this is a total repudiation of barack obama and democrats and both sides, and the white house thinks it too, we will be legitimized if barack obama -- both sides are acting if they win they're validated and can do exactly what they want. no. if mitt romney wins, republicans win the house and they have 51 democratic senators, there's still 49 as you know, lawrence, better than anybody, 49 democratic senators that can tie everything up. >> and it will be paul ryan who

is sent up to the hill to explain why we're not doing anything like the ryan plan. >> right. exactly. >> he'll find a way to say it. >> i want to read from charles in "the new york times," the defiant ones. he writes in part this -- >> richard? >> i've heard for the last year

of the republican primaries this president has no record to run on and it's true that the white house has struggled to frame its own record. the biggest contribution in my view of michele obama and bill clinton last night was that they gave them that road map. they showed how you can talk about this president's substantial record, whether you agree with it or not, there is a record there you can talk about that's what this white house, this obama campaign, and the president has to do tonight. he has to frame his record in the way that his wife and his predecessor just did. >> katty, that's exactly what conventions are about. last week's republican convention should have humanized mitt romney. they missed so many opportunities. this convention seems to me is hitting the marks just right. they are explaining to americans why four years of barack obama has made a difference. >> i mean there's a totally different challenge from tampa, right. the challenge in tampa was to take the person, fill him, make him more accessible.

people have that feeling about barack obama. they didn't need to do that. they needed to explain what they had to do over the last four years. tomorrow night barack obama needs to say what he's going to do over the next four years. he needs to lay out that road map for, you know, for the job that's not been completed but leave me with it and i will get us out of it. one of the most -- i thought one of the strongest lines bill clinton had last night is when he said, not me, not anyone, not any president could have fixed this recession in the space of four years. >> and there is -- >> katty kay. >> joe was -- not even joe scarborough. >> despite what he says every morning for three hours. >> lawrence, let me ask you, conventional wisdom seems to be setting in concrete this morning, that bill clinton is a better articulator of the case for president obama than is president obama himself. a, do you believe that and bf you do, why is that? why can't the president make the case better? >> i actually think president obama is a better speaker and more inspirational speaker but i think this situation, the --

katty just said, that thing about no other president could do this, that needs to be said by someone other than president obama. just imagine trying to write the speech where president obama stands up and says no president ever could have done what i have done. >> right. >> in this job's recovery still not strong enough job's recovery. >> richard wolffe, thank you so much. >> by the way, as you know, a lot of liverpool viewers watching now, the reds will -- this season will turn out okay. >> i'm walking alone right now, but i'm with you. >> no y our -- you're with me. >> senior strategist to the obama campaign, david axelrod, senator kirsten gillibrand will be here and next we'll take closer look at what drives president obama two preemment

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president obama started with a much weaker economy than i did. listen to me now. no president, no president, not me, not any of my predecessors, no one could have fully repaired all the damage that he found in just four years. [ applause ] he has laid the foundations for a new, modern, successful economy, a shared prosperity, and if you will renew the president's contract, you will

feel it. you will feel it. folks, whether the american people believe what i said or not may be the whole election. i want you to know i believe it with all my heart, i believe it. >> welcome back to the the blackfinn saloon. you're an expert in his [ inaudible ]. >> he clasp sometimes, i am just so overjoyed, he likes doing it, you know. [ inaudible ]. >> okay. >> he's unbelievable. >> editor of "the washington post" david mara nis, author of the book "barack obama, the story" and author of "time" magazine, michael duffy, co-author of "the president's club inside the world's most

exclusive fraternity" also here to discover the latest cover of "time" magazine. >> which we're not going to talk about right now. michael, i love your book. told everybody it's like crack for people that love presidential histories. but i saw last night on the stage, bill clinton, embracing a guy who four years ago in south carolina had a team that painted him as a bigot, racist. i thought about your book and you talk about how every president, other than jimmy carter, realized about two years in, this job is too big for one guy, i have nobody in the world i can talk to that can understand this, i got to talk to the last guy in office that i just -- i didn't think was that smart, maybe he can help. and so you see these guys on stage and boy, it plays out exactly what you've talked about in your book. >> he put the whole pantheon of the club on stage right now. he invoked reagan against mitt

romney. i think i heard more good things about george w. bush last night in charlotte than a week of the republicans in tampa. >> isn't that something. >> he invoked bush positively on a foreign policy initiative in africa and fiscal -- he said he wasn't as big of a tax cutter as the republicans are now. that was astonishing. this morning in kennebunkport and dallas, i wonder waking up the bush family listening to this, we came out okay. >> i like this guy. david, bill clinton, holy cow, he just keeps on keeping on. incredible book about him early on. first in his class. can you believe this guy. he hasn't lost his stout. >> of course not. you know, he's been running for president his whole life but he loves to be needed and he was very much needed and he did exactly what obama wanted him to do that moment when they're together, though, i wouldn't make too much of that. it was sort of a, you know, it

was no more than just a moment, it wasn't a grand gesture of any sort. the events have conspired to bring them together. >> the bottom line is, and we all know the families, and we all know the players here, bill clinton will never forget what they did to him and what they did to hillary four years ago, will he? >> well, he wouldnn't forget it. it's wrong to think that's the real bill clinton, the one that internally has this animosity towards barack obama. he actually wants barack obama to win and that separate -- one is the real bill clinton and the other false. i think he's going to work as hard as he can for this and i don't think he thinks hillary is going to run for president in 2016. >> lots of hillary fund-raisers who have been talking -- >> no. but i still -- i'm always wrong about her but i don't think -- >> lawrence, was last night

possibly about 2016 and hillarh? >> i believe -- i love hillary -- >> i'm not saying this in -- being negative. i've never seen a clinton pass up an opportunity. >> hillary is still secretary of state. hillary still has a viable political career. >> i love it. >> i just love them in every way. >> they're like meacham. they have photographers in closets just in case they were -- in case they win a pulitzer prize. >> that prize might show up. >> where was she? >> another video showed her saying get the hook, just like -- >> yeah. >> find out where she is. >> 2016 -- >> bill clinton is not going to do anything without his wife's career fully in mind at every moment. of course he's leaving every option open possible for her in that performance last night. >> i would think, i mean just safe bet, he's thinking about himself. >> really? >> i don't know. >> no. it's very important point.

of course he's thinking about himself. if hillary was not in politics he would have done the same thing. david's point is important. he has more than one motivator for almost everything. >> let's not pretend like that's a dirty thing, degal, churchill, you know, even when churchill was feeble, jon meacham, he would be like, he would be slouched, open the door, immediately straighten up and he'd play for the crowds, big leaders, historical figures, they are driven by a -- this oversized sense of self which makes them great at times. >> and this is what they do. this is -- you all had such terrible literary judgments to write these books you've written. rough night particularly for mike and nancy, with the president's club, but david's written about this brilliantly, mike and nancy have, they're political creatures, great political animals, and they're

the ones that do stay on the stage and we've talked to this a lot, there are former presidents who don't love politics. >> right. >> one of them is in dallas. >> one of them is in dallas -- >> any former president turned down an invitation by his party's convention to give a speech like that? >> no. and the road is littered with people who aren't invited an that's usually the norm. can i go back to the hub for a second, it was a demonstration project. he is basically acting out what he was saying in the speech, you know, let's get over our differences, stop fighting. when he's talking to the middle of the country, clinton is saying they're sick of the fighting, sick of the warfare, they want a fight, we don't and speaking for the democrats and went out and demonstrated. whether he agrees with everything obama says or done in the past isn't relevant, he was showing this is something the country needs to do. >> that's symbolic. we saw the picture of hillary clinton watching bill's speech. here is what she says about it. quote, my husband read parts of the speech to me over the last

few days. i received the as-prepared version which i'm anxious to compare with the as-delivered version. adorablep. >> david -- david. >> yeah. >> david, the clintons are remarkable on every level. you go back to when you wrote your book on bill clinton, he was seen as just a red hot mess and you just were waiting for him to blow up, and here we are 20 years later, and bill and hillary clinton still together, hillary clinton one of the most admired women in the world, just a remarkable job. 2000 forward, has gained the love of former political enemies. could you have ever imagined -- >> maybe you probably could have because you wrote the book early on. >> no. i mean the cycle of loss and recovery, just played on and on. you can tell, whenever he's down

he'll find his way up. he's up at 69%. i hate to say it. i've said it a couple times before, something will probably happen that will hurt him over the next year. and then he'll come back again. he keeps rising. to extraordinary patterns. >> forgive me for asking the question. has your book -- does your book end with his loss in 1980 and he was shaking hands in the square? >> the day he announced for president. >> you've heard this story. >> i'm sure. >> went out the next morning -- >> his friends were looking down and said poor guy, he doesn't realize the campaign is over and another aide goes, this isn't about the campaign loss. he started his next campaign. it's just -- >> he does that every morning. he wakes up every morning and reinvents himself and forgives himself and the world and keeps going. >> something to be said for that. >> yes, there is. >> all right. so, let's talk -- i guess we need to talk about "time" magazine. what's on the cover this week?

>> we always dop. >> what's on the cover this week. >> we took the central issue of the race, the size and shape and scope of government and put it on people's kitchen tables. mike, a foreign correspondent, i asked him to take his entire day and break down how much of it is subsidized by the u.s. government. mike isn't on food stamps. he's a "time" correspondent. from the moment he's woken up to the breakfast creyal his kids hit, to the water in his coffee and his health care and flood insurance and tennis courts, everything about his life is subsidized. the cover is -- my subsidized life. it goes to the point that it's not a nation of makers or takers. we're all makers and takers. we all get -- we're all in. even those of us who think we're totally comfortable and doing fine, it's essentially a nation on welfare. you know this. in your past life. just how much of the money is given out by the government, is given out not in payments, but for tax deductions that benefit

from all of us. >> and lawrence, that is -- that's the great dichotomy. we americans have the pioneering spirit and i see the flag behind us, don't tread on me, and, you know, i think my favorite poll over the past couple years was a poll of self-identified tea partiers who wanted to get rid of obama care, 72% said, don't touch my medicare. >> speaking as the only self-identified social iist on e panel this morning, i'm sure you have more coming in later, that's why i say it. this article is about why i say it. "newsweek" did that great cover years ago saying we're all socialists now. medicare is a socialist program. this -- social security is a socialist program. >> meacham, that was a good cover. >> include the water supply as -- in my definition of socialism and i'm really glad you did, that the water in his coffee, no one's thinking of that as being some kind of on the doll handout thing, but

government built that water supply. >> oh, wow. see. >> i'm just curious, can i ask you guys, i am fascinated by how jimmy carter stands alone as the iconic picture he stands alone in the white house, but he also stands on -- he is just to himself unlike these other presidents that reconcile and come together, the president's club still doesn't care a whole lot for jimmy carter and jimmy carter doesn't care a whole lot for them. >> he is the least -- >> no, he's not -- that's not a negative thing. he just doesn't play the game. the white house calls him and he's short and abrupt with them. he does not play the game. >> i think a big moment in the last ten years, was when he took the occasion at coretta scott king's funeral to attack the incumbent president who was sitting behind him. it's one of the moments that

doesn't lead to a subsidized coffee afterwards. >> what is it about jimmy carter, fascinating guy, historical figure, what is it about jimmy carter that gives him this -- he's so self-contained? >> i once asked his -- one of his close advisors this question and his best answer, it's just the way he is. >> has he always been that way or bitter by 1980 still? >> if you read his books, there are 21 of them, shot through what he wrote about that. on the other hand advantage in carter in two respects, been the model for almost everyone after him to follow. since they re-elect and unelect them earlier they need something to do afterwards and he's shown them how. carter gives the rest of the club something to rally around. every club needs a black sheep and something to talk about. even in the club, it's a key purpose. >> of course barack obama, the subject of your latest book, he

speaks tonight. what should we expect? >> not a clinton-ian speech at all. clinton's speech went longer than in 1988. but, you know, i think there are two different people and it would be a big mistake for president obama to try to replicate what bill clinton did. and as other people have said, he has to present his vision for the future and that's it. not another state of the union address. >> right. >> it's kind of hard to hit the sweet spot for this speech, i think, but i would not doubt that he'll do it. >> last night was hard too. he's following michele obama last night. >> right. >> how can you score in the place where michele obama just hit a grand slam and it turns out -- >> might as well say -- >> in that hall they're not measuring how far the home runs go. a home run is a home run. i would expect barack obama to step up and hit his home run and it will be judged as a home run. >> if he does, i've got to say, this will be remembered as one

of the most successful conventions if you judge it by what a party needs to do and whether they hit that mark. >> execution. >> and, you know, tampa, you know, i think philadelphia is that way for republicans in 2000. we all left charged and ready to take the white house back. but boy, every day we get into this convention deeper. >> seemed disjointed. >> the weaker republicans seemed in tampa. >> they do. david maranis, thank you very much. >> sorry i mixed up the story. >> it's a great story though. >> "time" with the one nation subsidized how big government underwrites your life. coming up kristen gillibrand joins us, barney frank, jim clyburn and elijah cummings. keep it on "morning joe" live from charlotte. 4g lte has the fastest speeds.

so let's talk about coverage. based on this chart, who would you choose ? wow. you guys take a minute. verizon, hands down. i'm going to show you guys another chart. pretty obvious. i don't think color matters. pretty obvious. what's pretty obvious about it ? that verizon has the coverage. verizon. verizon. we're going to go to another chart. it doesn't really matter how you present it. it doesn't matter how you present it. verizon. more 4g lte coverage than all other networks combined.

welcome back to "morning joe." i'm meteorologist bill karins. a weather update to help you get out the door. unfortunately, that high humidity still exists around the washington, d.c., area, southward. it's a little better this morning. areas from philadelphia up

through new england. we've even got a little bit of rain to talk about moving through virginia. going to be driving south of d.c. on i-95, anywhere down there, you could see some showers and hit and miss, maybe thunderstorms too. going to try to cross over the chesapeake. also a few showers down there, southern portions of new jersey. otherwise, expect partly cloudy skies up through new england today and temperatures willing on the warm side. we will see highs today once again in the 80s, only exception near the water there in boston, slightly cooler. middle of the country, how hot has this summer been? oklahoma through texas, we're still in the hundreds, 103 today in dallas. thankfully you will cool off as we go through the upcoming weekend. a few storms in the southeast, including north carolina today. the only item to watch of concern possibly over the next couple days, slow development is possible of an area of low pressure in the gulf of mexico. this could become a tropical depression and try to slide towards north florida or central florida as we go throughout the upcoming weekend. we'll keep an eye on that. any tropical development in the gulf can always be an issue. coming up next, live from

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the system is rigged. look around. oil companies guzzle down billions in profits, billionaires pay lower tax rates than their secretaries, and wall street ceos, the same ones who wrecked our economy and destroyed millions of jobs, still strut around congress, no shame, demanding favors, and

acting like we should thank them. does anyone here have a problem with that? well, i do too. i do too. >> 46 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe" live in charlotte at the dnc. here with us now, democratic senator of new york, senator kirsten gillibrand. great to have you on the show. >> thank you. thank you, joe. great to be here. >> how is this convention going? this is not -- this is really not your father or grandfather's democratic convention. >> no. >> this is today's convention and tomorrow's convention. >> i like the way you said the last segment, it's home run after home run. i mean from michele obama's speech two nights ago, bill clinton was last night, we are seeing extraordinary advocates for what democrats stand for and why we want to fight for the american people and the middle class. >> exactly, joe. >> sorry. >> you know -- >> take your time, joe.

>> we were talking before, lawrence, about trying to figure out what convention was this good. i talked about the republicans 2000 in philadelphia, but i think we have to go back to 1980 in detroit, ronald reagan. extraordinary convention for the republic republicans. i said for you, democrats, '92, but you said this has a better feeling than even new york '92 convention, that helped bill clinton. >> it's an incumbent's convention. there's more reason for optimism right there. and there's a strength of the presentation that is unlike anything i've seen. i'm starting with -- on my score card i start with what have they gotten wrong. where was the mistake? >> yeah. >> tuesday night. where was the mistake. what didn't work wednesday night. what hasn't worked. everything has worked. >> so -- well there is that awkward moment. >> after you get past that. awkward moment about jerusalem and god. but there's a difference. democrats have their awkward moments at 3:00 in the afternoon.

>> right. >> republicans wait until 10:00 and prime time to bring out clint eastwood. >> the key moment. >> michael, so lawrence is saying what did they get wrong? i will tell you, in tampa, i sat there as a republican, as a conservative, watching people that i respected, and looked like they were just reading the teleprompter. i didn't feel it other than condi rice. >> they were reading the teleprompter. >> but, so is michele obama, so is bill clinton. but you didn't feel that way. >> but look at michele obama's speech. that was the most emotional, personal speech that focused on families, real stories about how their characters were formed, how president obama's character was formed. those were real and it really -- it struck me as such a personal moment. one of the best convention speeches i've ever heard. she really connected. if you looked at the audience, pem were crying, tears rolling down their eyes because she was

connecting. >> not just in the convention hall but across america. mika has talked to some of her friends, who were tearing up. >> single mothers, stories of struggle, stories of wanting to reach that american dream and doing everything. your children can get there even if you can't. >> i agree with you in that sense. there's that connection, because it was through anecdotes, through real life stories which you didn't get a lot of in tampa and i thought that was a missed opportunity, for example, you talked about it joe and mika, with ann romney's speech sort of connecting the real life experience of the romney family, in particular mitt romney, to what everybody is going through every day. and the democrats are very good about that and how it plays out in the country, i think remains to be seen. we'll see polls in two weeks that talks about the full impact of it. the thing you still have to go back to the nub of this convention and the tampa convention and that is the underlying question, are you better off, and what do the next four years look like.

>> that's what bill clinton delivered on last night. he delivered on not only a frame of reference, but he cut through the lies and just talked about what do we believe in. what has president obama done. what has he left when we started and where are we -- >> the key differences that's coming from bill clinton. that's 1992 to 2000. we haven't heard that from barack obama and maybe we will tonight and i think that's going to be a definitional moment for his presidency and certainly for his re-elect if he can frame that in his own words that we believe the next four years are going to be better off. it's great for bill clinton to tell us, but we need to hear it from him. >> what bill clinton did so well, he explained it. went through health care. why does it matter to you? these cuts in medicare matter to the seniors in the senior homes. it really -- >> but the president now hasn't talked about his health care plan that way and that's the point. >> we'll get that opportunity tonight. i think michele obama did a great job talking about why barack obama made a difference over the next four years but

katty, at the end of the day, it does come down to the president himself standing up and delivering. >> bill clinton can be as good as an advocate as he can be, but in the end it's barack obama that has to go out and win this election. yes, bill clinton may help with some segments of the electorate, he may have gemmed up enthusiasm here at the convention and perhaps amongst donors which i keep hearing throughout the course of this week is a big issue. >> huge issue. >> they're hoping this week is really going to rally some of the big donors, particularly on the west coast, but barack obama has to go out and make the case that bill clinton started to make, which is the work has begun on trying to put us back into progress, but obviously it's not complete but trust me with four more years to carry on the agenda. >> explain the economic agenda. >> bill clinton framed, we want to see made in america again. why was the auto bailout so important and how it relates and we're in this together, that if you don't help these industries succeed the parts manufacturers won't succeed and your small town will not succeed. he made the case about what is

the economic vision for this country, what has president obama started to do and complete in the next four years. >> all right. >> unifying message. >> senator, great to see you. as an elmira guy, we need to go to upstate new york. >> we will. >> you said it's going to be the new silicon valley. >> the semiconductor industry is booming in upstate new york. >> we'll go there. >> why don't we do a show there. >> we will. >> it's going to be in big flats where nobody knows where big flats is, between elmira and corning. >> i think that's what's great. >> thanks very much. >> you're welcome. >> look forward to seeing you today. still ahead, obama's senior adviser david axelrod will be here. keep it right here. he's having a drink. david! >> where's david? >> where is he? >> where did he go? >> he went off. ♪

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lot of show left. still ahead chuck todd, david gregory, up next, senior adviser to the obama campaign, david axelrod, "morning joe" back in a moment. [ ow

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when congressman ryan looked into that tv camera and attacked president obama's medicare savings as, quote, the biggest, coldest, power play, i didn't know whether to laugh or cry. because -- that $716 billion is

exactly to the dollar the same amount of medicare savings that he has in his own budget. it takes some brass for attacking a guy for doing what you did. the claim that president obama weakened welfare work requirement is just not true. but -- they keep on running ads claiming it. you want to know why? their campaign pollster said, we are not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers. now -- finally, i can say, that is true.

>> we love him. >> welcome back to "morning joe." joining us on the set moderator of "meet the press" david gregory, nbc news chief white house correspondent, political director and host of "the daily run down" chuck todd and host of the obama campaign, david axelrod. >> i have to give out the buttons. >> these are chuck todd buttons. >> look at this. hey. mika has the old button. let's go to camera seven. there is a new chuck todd commemorative edition button. all the kids going back to school across america, if they don't have this button, they are the outcast. >> are we on the air still? >> we are on the air. >> this is -- this is the rookie button. >> this is not -- this is a hard one to get. >> you know what, 30 years from now, nothing on them. >> keep it in plastic. >> that's the thing. >> yes. >> hey, mika, we're on the air. >> oh. look at the crowd.

>> david axelrod, i'm going to ask you a question in the hopes that my co-host -- here she comes. >> i'm coming. >> david. >> just can't hang on to these things. everybody wants one. >> the girls love. >> well, i am a married man, but thanks. >> we have blown three minutes of david axelrod time. quite a convention, but as you know, tonight's the night. what does the president have to do? >> i think the president will talk about where we have to go as a country. president clinton cleared a lot of underbrush out of the way for us last night and, you know, the president has an opportunity to talk about how we lift the country, how we rebuild the middle class, the things we have to do together to achieve a kind of future that people are looking for and, you know, he will focus on his vision, but it's a sharp contrast with the vision we saw last week in tampa. >> a sharp contrast last night

between elizabeth warren, more of a populist, progressive populist than bill clinton, talked like a dnc democrat. we were talking about the fact, not a g in the speech last night. >> for president clinton. >> he dropped a couple fixin's in, fixin' to tell you. >> he's been living in the south for a very long time, southern part of harlem. maybe that's why he's dropping the gs. amazing how he got more southern last night. >> folksy. >> gillibrand told me if you want somebody to make a good case, you send a new yorker. >> exactly. so the president has a progressive group of delegates. he ran as a new democrat four years ago. what will we hear tonight? >> well, joe, first of all, i would say the link between elizabeth warren, between bill clinton and everyone speaking here is one common theme, you grow this economy for a stronger country when you strengthen the middle class. you grow this economy from the middle class out. not from the top down.

that's a view they sair. bill clinton says when the middle class does well, we create more millionaires too. that's how our country gross. i see there's a threat of continuity between all of our speakers. and tonight the president will talk about some of the things we have to do to achieve that, strengthen the middle class, grow this economy, to educate our kids. >> right. >> control our energy future. the kinds of things we know we have to do. >> michele bachmann is he mika brzezinski is here and here to ask why democrats are so great. >> why is this convention so awesome? will it address the issue of being better off or not than four years ago. that has been a theme the republicans have been jumping on but there's been success in terms of grabbing the message. >> president clinton was compelling on that last night. >> we have unemployment, we have a jobs crisis, a lot of people hurting. >> we do. i think that the question that people are asking, and the question people are tuning in to

see, and the question they tuned in last week to watch governor romney's speech in hope to hear answers to, where do we go from here? where do we go from here? everybody understands we've come through a difficult time in this country, the worst economic crisis since the great depression, but how do we build from where we are? we're not losing 800,000 jobs. we're gaining jobs back. how do we move forward, rebuild the middle class. >> some people who feel they can't move forward at all and for that their kids won't either. what about the 50-year-old unemployed, you know, executive who's been laid off a second time. i mean there is an issue here with long-term unemployment that these people are going to be watching, what will they get from the speech that will make them think they want to vote for obama again? >> i think they'll hear some specific things that will speak to how we build this economy to create good-paying jobs and prepare people for those jobs. the president has a short-term plan to get our economy, accelerate our recovery, but

also a long-term plan to build the future in which people have good middle class jobs, some confidence their kids will do better than them. >> david, remember back in 2004, barack obama was asked whether he was nervous, he famously said i'm lebron, baby. he better be lebron tonight because he's following his wife and clinton. the bar is high for a guy who's not too bad at this sport. >> you know, he's a pretty good yor ra tore, he'll give a good speech, he got a very good setup. you know, i do think it's a challenge. i think as david knows the criticism, that there is this danger of whether why it's bill clinton who can make a case perhaps better than the administration has done. you've responded to that. another point, bill clinton vouching for president obama is important, also realizes the importance of government working with business, and i'm talking to some of the high-level democratic donors here so critical of this administration for failing to forge better ties with the business community, to

work in common cause at a time when you're up against somebody whose chief pedigree is business background, doesn't seem that's been as prominent as this convention, should it be? >> actually, we heard some leaders of the business community speak last night and speak not just about the relationship but to speak about the specific things this president has done to pull this country out of the free fall it was in when he came and lay a foundation for future growth. there isn't anybody who can honestly say in the business community that the situation for them isn't better than it was in -- >> you don't have that moment with the president and business leaders standing there -- >> you talk to business leaders. what they say we need better educated workers and we need, you know, cheaper energy and we -- you know, the kinds of conditions they need to grow are the very things this president is working on. >> but they'll also say, david, what they'll also say, david well, need a president that doesn't call us fat cats. >> well, we need a president

who -- what we need is a president who's going to say we're all going to play by the same rules from main street to wall street to washington and that may make some people uncomfortable but that's how we grow an economy, that's how we create a stronger america. >> this new piece of information that we get tonight, maybe it's in a new agenda item, something new, i know that's the hardest thing to do when running for re-election is sort of introduce something new, is there going to be, you know, some change in theme or new or offering of a second term of what's going to happen, second term look like? >> there will be new elements in the speech, chuck, but the basic argument -- >> new elements of what? >> terms of ideas that people hear that they may not have heard before, but the fundamental argument remains the same, which is there are certain things we have to do to grow. there are certain commitments we have to make as a country to grow, and he will make that case. >> will he grab bowles-simpson?

going to say, i am for bowl bowles-simpson or something like bowles-simpson? i'm not going to get ahead of the president on his speech. >> could it be something -- >> i will say, we're the ones who proposed the $4 trillion plan to reduce the deficit that the cbo certified would do so. they're the guys that don't have one. they're the guys that have a tax plan disguised as a -- a tax cut disguised as a deficit reduction. >> president clinton talked about compromise and cooperation, looking back on his own presidency, talking about working with guys like joe to get things done, crossing partisan lines. we haven't seen much of that in the first term. you say it's the fault of the house republicans. why would things be different in your view in the second term for a president obama and congress? >> he's worked with republicans wherever he can. where he couldn't, he forged ahead in order to move this country forward because we can't be stuck in place in kind of

partisan gridlock. i believe when the people speak on november 6th, it will send a strong message and there are people of goodwill in both parties who do want to move this country forward and i will point out, as i have before, that, you know, there were highlights and low lights when joe was there as well, like impeachment. >> come on. it was the '90s as i said, it seemed like the thing to do. >> thank you for that small detail. >> we loved bill clinton, we worked with bill clinton, except for that impeachment thing. >> exactly. >> so, by the way, just for our friends behind us, so bill clinton and i are over at the clinton global initiative and we're sitting there. he's like, you know, joe, back when we were together, we got things done in congress. and i was like, mr. president, i know. we put -- and david e-mails me and he's like, excuse me! excuse me! you did impeach him! willie -- >> what is wrong with you. >> >> it was 1999, right?

listening to prince, impreaching presidents. >> we all know the history of this, we know on the night of the inauguration that paul ryan and 15 republicans met to talk about how they could thwart the presidency. we know mitch mcconnell said his number one goal was to defeat the president. i think that president clinton talked about that last night. i think the country's going to render a verdict on that on november 6th and a strong message and i think that will be heard by some republicans and independents as well as democrats. >> [ inaudible ]. >> have to what? >> have divided government most likely. but both sides are acting like if they win, it's going to be -- i say this to supporters of mitt romney as well. do you really think mitt romney is going to win, even if you win the house and 51 seats in the senate. you still have to meet the democrats half way on some of these things. the president understands that as well, right? >> i mean, he's basically merged with the house republicans, he's taken the pledge he wouldn't -- >> i know, but my point, david,

both sides are going to have to -- i'm talking about your guy, though. i say that to romney's people. your guy is going to have to -- >> i think he's kind of locked in with that group in the house republican caucus. i don't think he's going to stray from that. i don't see anything that suggests the republican party is interested in compromise. you were in tampa last week, however did you hear the word compromise and cooperation? >> i don't hear it an awful lot here either. >> i don't know about? >> the speeches other than the prime time speeches, this has been a hard left convention. you guys -- >> depends on where you sit. >> well, mark halperin, john heilemann, everybody that sits in the middle says this is a pretty progressive convention, but your prime time speaker, chuck, the main speakers -- >> i have been struck, it's funny, both conventions came out more partisan than i expected them to be at a time when it seemed to be -- we know the last slice of voters are independents, and you were both careful -- you were careful at

10:00. you guys were all careful at 10:00. >> you guys have focused on left and right and we're trying to focus on how we move the country forward in a pragmatic way. >> i wish, david, that our heart was as big as the montana sky. just like you. >> you see, people are responding to what he's saying. >> of course they are. david, where are we? >> stop it. >> i do think -- one of the big questions i think to your point, david, is if we can get beyond left/right, if the president wins re-election, he does earn a certain amount of political capital. we saw with president bush how defeating that was in the second term. where does he decide to spend it and does he share it not with the party faithful hall, the folks with him in 2008 and say i don't know, i don't think he can deliver, where hdoes he spend te capital. >> there are fundamental challenges we have to meet and you talk about them every sunday on your show. people will come away from the speech with a clear sense of how

he would spend that capital and leads the country. i think what was absent from the speech last week in tampa was any of that. >> is there one big area? >> he didn't say it in his speech -- people came away from the speech saying where do you want to go, what do you want to do? they won't leave the president's speech feeling that. >> do you have one big area? >> obviously the one you've focused on is one we have to deal with is the fiscal piece but do that in a balanced way so we still can move forward on things like education and energy and research and development that we need to grow this economy and grow the middle class. the key is balance here. >> you know, willie, i want to be clear, i'm certainly not just pointing at the president or at the democrats, it's the republicans as well, it takes two to tango so to speak, and i just wonder from what you've seen over the past four or five years, do you get the sense that both parties understand that whoever wins this election, they're going to have to -- they're going to have to meet in

the middle whether it's house republicans dealing with barack obama, or senate democrats dealing with mitt romney? do they understand that, you know, because bill clinton did get re-elected and he thought this is going to prove i'm legitimate and then as we brought up, he was impeached three years later. >> i think from the outset, the cynics look at what happens in washington, maybe they get it conceptually but they don't practice it. there's a premium put on acquiring and holding on to power in washington and not using it to move the country forward and it comes from both sides. house republicans made it clear they didn't want to work with president obama out of the gate. they say president obama hasn't extended the olive branch enough to them. for people who watch this from the outside don't watch our show every morning and say, this is a town where nothing gets done and they have no reason to believe anything will get done. >> in a town where nothing gets done, david, ultimately he is the president, doesn't it fall on him and doesn't he need to address that? >> i think he has addressed it right along and you know you --

you cannot make the argument that he's moved on a partisan basis and got too much done on a partisan basis and then say he's not getting anything done. you've got to ride one horse or another. but really, here's what i would say. we have always, always had the door open to republicans and when you look at the things that the president's proposed his deficit reduction plan is -- as president clinton said last night, two and a half cuts to one part tax increases on upper income americans. it's a balanced plan that still leaves room to make the investments fwheeds to make. that's something that we ought to be able to agree on. if you take absolute positions, not one dollar of tax increases, we're going to take it all from cuts and we're going to -- you know, which would ratchet down the economy, and put new burdens on the middle class, that's not -- absolutism is not a prescription for compromise. the president's willing to compromise. the republican party calls

compromise a dirty word and at least today's republican party. >> i do have a theory that the quote/unquote fever breaks for one or the other because the losing party will have the infighting and there will be that one crew that says you know what i'm tired of that side i'm going to work with the winning side, but david, ask you about a guy we haven't talked about today, last night's normally the middle night was supposed to be the vice president's night. it seems as he's had a tough week. this new poll that's out that doesn't necessarily put him in the most positive light, asks for individual words to describe him, negative words than positive words, does he have to rehabilitate his image a little bit with the american public. >> he's playing a role that we wanted him to play tonight in essentially speaking before setting the stage for the president. he's had a bird's eyeview, a front row view from a partner

standpoint of the decisions the president has made of the history of the last three and a half years and his testimony is really, really important to us and will set the president up nicely. so, you know, joe biden's been a great vice president. he's taken on some very tough jobs. >> great vice president. >> greatest ever. >> he might be perfect. >> he is perfect. >> i love him. >> we have a no attack joe zone here and i am shocked, chuck todd, that you even thought to disparage him with this pew poll. witchcraft! >> joe. >> the republicans have beaten him up. they have really beaten him up. >> i understand that. but understand, he ran that recovery act, the potential for disaster was so great, he did a -- he did an incredible job running that. he was a point man on the transition in iraq. could have skidded off in a bad direction. he's done -- >> [ inaudible ]. >> that's up to you guys as to why he gets a bad wrap. >> certainly not our fault.

>> your heart is not big enough. >> this is a guy that relates to the middle class and working people in this country well and you'll see tonight he's going to do a great job. >> yes he will. >> when you talk to him -- >> david clutching the chuck todd button as he makes the case. >> because i'm looking for the chuck todd 2016 buttons. >> i love it. that's next. that's next. chuck. >> thank you very much. >> all right. >> hey, david, thank you so much. >> sure. >> absolutely. >> coming up, an awkward moment on the convention floor where the democrats try to amend -- >> can i say this for the record. >> david axelrod you're my second favorite david as well. >> when biden talks -- >> when biden and you talk, does he hold your hand like and -- like this and look at you deeply in your eyes? >> he does that to me. >> he's great guy. we love joe. >> an awkward moment on the convention floor when democrats try to amend their platform coming up. >> all those delegates in favor say aye.

>> all those delegates opposed say no. >> in the opinion of the chair -- let me do that again. >> wow. >> yeah. not good. >> here's the difference again. we republicans, we do that at 10:04 p.m. >> right. >> on our peak night. democrats do that in the afternoon. >> absolutely. we're going to talk to the man behind the center of the controversy, los angeles mayor, antonio villa rig go sa. first congressman barney frank is here. we're in the saloon in charlotte. hey. hey eddie.

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democrats have the die sersty angle well covered by filling the convention hall with democrats. black people, asians, sikhs, jews, muslims, hippies, veterans, babies, 1940's boxing reporters, 1840 sheriff, gay service droids, muppet americans and, of course, newman! hello, newman! by the way, that was real. newman was actually there. how effortlessly diverse is the

democratic party? remember the folks at the rnc over rising latino star marco rubio, the democrats not only have a rising star in san antonio mayor julio castro, they have an extra one of him in case he breaks! >> welcome back to "morning joe." with us now democratic representative from massachusetts, congressman barney frank. barney, how are you doing, man? >> good, thank you. >> good to see you. >> so, barney, you have been in washington so long, you've been involved in public service for most of your life, you're leaving. how does it feel? >> liberating. i'm going to get to talk about all this business and be an advocate but not have to be responsible, so it's -- the good parts and not the bad. responsible for other people's problems when the phone rings now, it's not going to be so-and-so just screwed up. >> you've been guarded before?

you've been guarded? >> no. oh, no. i mean responsible for other people's problems. oh, no. i don't think i'll talk very differently. >> yeah. >> so, you've been to a lot of democratic conventions. we're trying to figure out the last convention where a party so effectively conveyed their message. of course tonight is the punch line. i mean tonight is the night where the president has to deliver. if he fails, then the convention has failed. he's not going to fail. he's great. what's the last convention where the notes -- where you went to, where the notes seem to be hid as well as this convention? >> i haven't thought about it. i think '92 with bill clinton as a fresh face had a great impact. clinton was -- people forget he started out behind. he ran because nobody else wanted to. i think '92 was a very important convention. >> boy, they're hitting all the right notes.

democrats are hitting all the right notes. unbelievable. >> look, obviously it's -- we got the music to sing from. the facts are good for us and yeah, i think we have been able to present that in an effective way. >> handicap elizabeth warren and scott brown. i know you're for -- assume you're for elizabeth warren and all that, why is she a little bit behind? >> i'm very much for elizabeth. i wonder, now maybe i'm going to switch to the other side of the business, but i don't understand -- >> auditioning here. >> people on your side, why do you ask us questions when you know we can't give you fully honest answers. i mean, i'm not -- >> well -- >> i'm not an objective person. i think elizabeth warren would be a great united states senator pap. >> why is she behind. >> you should ask people why she -- the key story here is how close the race has been. two years ago, a year ago, people were writing about how scott brown was a walk-in, that

this race was a nonrace, he's a very popular politician, good at what he does. there was a hunger in the -- in a way he benefits from what i think ought to be a problem for him and that's the right wing nature of the current republican party. people are so eager to find a republican that doesn't make them just nervous and unhappy that he's got a very low bar he's being measured against. plus he is a very pleasant, nice person. and that is a great advantage of politicians. >> that is an interesting answer, worth a question. >> come on now. >> we were talking about some of the social issues and the prominence of the convention versus other parts of the dialog. the president has taken some pretty progressive positions on some important issues, including gay marriage, an issue important for you as a newlywed, congratulations on that by the way. >> my husband is about ten feet away over there. >> one of the big debates is a lot of swing states where there is whatever it is, 5, 6, 7%

undecided, do those issues matter to swing voters at all? >> no. >> are they totally focused on the economy. >> i think the answer is this. if you are someone who cares very strongly about abortion one way or the other or rights of gay, lesbian, transection all people of equal equality you're almost certain going to be one side or another. if you think that people like me shouldn't have full legal rights, you're not voting for -- if that's a major factor for you, you've been off barack obama for a very long time. i think frankly this works in our favor. the way things go now, i think the intensity on the issues of, for instance, marriage are on our side. but in any case, i don't think there are many undecided people for whom these are the key issues because if these are your key issues, these hot button issues you're already on one side or the other. >> which david, begs the question, why have we heard so many people outside of prime time at this convention talking

about abortion. it's been a key part. i agree with barney, if you're for abortion rights, you're not voting for mitt romney. if that's your issue. why -- >> you might have voted for him earlier. >> right. >> exactly. but not this year. >> he was for it before he was against it. >> if the president has more crossover appeal, more independent appeal like he had in 2008, if he can somehow achieve that, you know, maybe the coalition politics become less important. i suspect, there's such a focus here as the was in tampa on identity politics, that they want -- >> say this, i think todd akin has elevated that. i think what you have is a group of people there, republican leaning women and it's not just planned parenthood or abortion, it gets into birth control and planned parenthood. planned parenthood i'm willing to bet has had a significant republican female membership, correct me the democrats think frankly the hard edged and in

some ways extremist views being expressed there, give us a chance to make a little break through. i was talking about gay rights. i think abortion there may be a little more play. >> can i ask you about governing and now that you're leaving congress, how do you see a president and a second term if it comes to that, using perhaps more presidential power, some mandate to sort of break the log jam? is it more -- i thought they talked more background for the party, not being bullied off of positions, more of a lyndon johnson model and would that work in this environment? >> let me say, i don't think both sides have been bullied off our positions. we're not bullied by the republicans. people in my business are bullied by their constituents. they're the ones we're afraid of. this is what's going to make it better. you've had mitch mcconnell say his number one goal was to defeat barack obama from the election. that dynamic will be gone. people say in the second term

you have less power. you're less of a target. the partisan most -- momentum against him, the need we have to stop this guy and keep him from winning again will be gone. i think there will be more republicans who have a willingness to do it. the other thing it depends on this election, one of the things that has happened is the republican party is going to be moved significantly to the right. further on one side of the spectrum than any other political party has been before the civil war. we'll see what happens in november if that sort of very conservative republican thrust is rewarded at the ballot box and they pick up seats in the senate and house, the tendency will be reinforced. if they fall short i think look, there are republicans who are not happy with this kind of dominance from the most conservative wing. i think the question is will november give them a little more empowerment but the basic dynamic is, republicans will no longer be motivated by the need to defeat barack obama. they'll have to think more about how they want to position

themselves for 2016 and i think that makes it a little bit more space to get to -- >> do democrats have lessons to learn from the last four years? >> i had one. i thought the president made a mistake in 2008, i have seen the evolution of a republican party that's moved to the right. when i was the first -- the senior democrat on the committee i was on, i worked closely with mike oxley and i have seen this evolution to the right so i think the lesson the president has learned, and maybe he had to reach out, if he didn't look like he was reaching out he would have been criticized. when the president announced in 2008 he was going to govern in a post-partisan manner knowing what the republican party had become i told his people he was giving me post-partisan depression. i think he's learned now that was not working. >> >> there it is. >> hey, barney, thank you so much for being with us. >> okay. >> congratulations. chuck, thanks a lot. >> all right. >> we'll see you soon. thank you so much for coming and see you on "the daily rundown" and david gregory, you've got

mitt romney. >> i do. i do. on sunday. he'll be my exclusive. big time to have him on. >> all right. >> lot of questions, here we go. >> all right. >> five years. >> coming up, our good friend congressman jim clyburn and congressman elijah cummings. right back on "morning joe."

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the matter requires a two-thirds vote in the affirmative. all those delegates in favor say aye. >> aye. >> al those delegates opposed say no. >> no. >> in the opinion of the -- let me do that again. all of those delegates in favor say aye. >> aye. >> all those delegates opposed say no. >> no. >> let me do that again. >> sense of humor. >> welcome back.

that was a clip of democrats changing their party platform yesterday on the convention floor. joining us los angeles mayor and democratic convention antonio villa ra go sa. you got it. >> also with us -- >> by the way, the dude needs a hearing aid. that was not two-thirds of the people. they set you up, man. they set you up. >> thankfully i got to make the decision and not you. >> that's awful. >> he has a good sense of humor. >> he does. >> also joining us democratic leader south carolina leader jim clyburn. >> thank you. thank you. >> ranking member of the house oversight committee. maryland congressman elijah cummings. >> all right. chairman, good to see you. it's like meacham it's like old home week. >> it is. >> congress here. >> it's your caucus. >> it is my caucus. mr. mayor, what happened

yesterday? >> awkward. >> that was awkward. >> awkward. >> actually, happened was the president of the united states wanted a platform that reflected this values. >> yeah. >> in distinct to mitt romney who said he didn't agree with his platform on the issue of abortion. when the president heard about and saw the plank didn't reflect who he was, his policies and positions i want a change. that's decisive action. so when we put it up for a vote, the first time, clear to me we had a majority vote. i wanted to make sure that every voice was heard. >> yeah. they were heard. >> sure did. >> three times, mr. mayor. >> and what you saw up there was a man willing to make a decision. >> wants to be speaker of the california state assembly. >> okay. >> it helps if you have -- >> it is important. they had ten minutes all those delegates to object. nobody objected. >> yeah. >> at the end of the day. so jim, i've been coming to these things since 1972.

>> absolutely. >> and this is a good one. >> is this the democrats' best convention? >> the best one that i've ever experienced. i have never seen -- [ applause ] >> of course we have nowhere to go but up if you remember 1972, mcgovern, 3:00 in the morning, making his acceptance speech. then -- yeah. >> back stage in miami. i know this is -- >> it was great. >> great convention. >> all the notes. >> charlotte has done itself great. >> yes, they have. >> elijah, what a politician, elijah. [ applause ] >> it is a pep rally here. so, but elijah, you look at what michele obama did the other night, bill clinton. the president actually for the first time in his political life he's got a pretty high bar to reach here. >> he's going to be fine. i think the president has to talk about what he's going to do

from here. in other words, i've said over and over again, that what he's had in this past four years, he's had a congress, republican congress, that has gone against every single thing he has done. and hopefully, he'll be able to talk about the things he's done, you know, talk about his journey, not blaming anything but talking about the mess he found himself in and now talking about what his accomplishments have been and protecting what he has accomplished. a lot of people forget that. protect what he's got. and talk about how he's going to continue on this platform he set up. >> mr. mayor, moving forward, jobs, how do you bring jobs to los angeles? how do you bring jobs to america? how do you get as mika said, the 53, 54-year-old worker who's been laid off twice. >> has nowhere to go. >> how do we turn the economy around is this. >> something we could do even before november is pass the president's jobs initiative, to keep teachers and firefighters

and police officers on our streets, and another thing we could do, is to pass his infrastructure plan. it took us, what, 11 times to finally pass the surface transportation bill. there's about 3 million jobs in that. we can pass his infrastructure plan, and we could add a lot more jobs. cities need a partner. >> that's not answering the question joe was asking about the long-term unemployed, mid level to higher level jobs, laid off one or two times who have nowhere to go, hanging out there. >> the romney/ryan -- >> job training at 50, absolutely. the romney/ryan budget would decimate a job force development. >> we have a border state congressman and two southerners here. talk about how does the president carry north carolina, how does he carry virginia? >> i think the president is in a real good place in north carolina and virginia. wish i could say the same about the states south of here that i

represent, but we did our thing -- >> you did the primary in 2008. >> we built a good foundation for him. we sent about 2800 of our volunteers up to north carolina and we're going to do that again. we'll be working north carolina, virginia, we are going to win these two states and i think you're going to do it -- [ applause ] >> by laying out the pathway that elijah talked about. i think people will be very, very pleased, last night we got a good explanation or maybe explaining from bill clinton. as you see. you got an explaining. he explained it last night. i think tonight the president will build upon that and show his vision for the future. >> all right. >> elijah, what about the house, the senate, how are democrats looking? do you take the house back over? >> i hope and pray we do. i think we have a good chance on both. we need dems in the house and senate badly to help this president get his agenda through. >> all right. maybe you can get the mayor to

count the votes. he's good at that. >> and bang the gavel. >> can we listen to alex h is new boast is here. >> he's saying we have to go to break. >> we must go to break. >> mr. mayor, thank you. good to see you. >> congressman elijah cummings, great to see you as well. when we come back, we'll check in with willie at the msnbc experience. keep it right here on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] if you stash tissues

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♪ when you got back to your ♪ >> welcome back to "morning joe." you know, there are a lot of people who couldn't get into the blackfinn saloon upstairs so we're bringing the show down to them at the msnbc experience. this is a packed house, a big crowd. how early did you all get up? >> early. >> 3, 4 this morning. >> 2:00 in the morning. >> 2:00 in the morning. you win. we have a winner. we have a winner. >> 2:00 in the morning. >> terry, you traveled all the way from seattle, washington, to see the speech tonight. >> i did. >> and then what happened? >> you know, found the announcement that i'm not getting in. >> well, you are in the football stadium, they moved it to the arena. we're going to do you one better, hang out here and watch. that's better than being in a football stadium. hang out and watch "morning joe" right here. thank you all for waking up so

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what's in your wallet? oh, hey alex. just picking up some, brochures, posters copies of my acceptance speech. great! it's always good to have a backup plan, in case i get hit by a meteor. wow, your hair looks great. didn't realize they did photoshop here. hey, good call on those mugs. can't let 'em see what you're drinking. you know, i'm glad we're both running a nice, clean race. no need to get nasty. here's your "honk if you had an affair with taylor" yard sign. looks good. [ male announcer ] fedex office. now save 50% on banners.

♪ >> are we good? all right. hey, welcome back to "morning joe." time to talk about what we learned today. you guys having fun? what a crowd. i mean seriously, mark halperin, it's like beetle mania at jfk

1964. crazy crowds. what a convention. >> more like the [ inaudible ]. >> know what i learned bill clinton unifies the entire political media establishment. hyperbole is not possible. >> impossible. what did you learn today? >> i agree with mark halperin. >> thank you very much. very succinct. brevity. >> i learned that president clinton longs for the days of the 1990s with democratic presidents and republican congressmen can get together. >> we just loved it. >> on issues like impeachment. >> that's what i'm trying to do, bring people together. >> i know you ha've been a litt upset about how nice people are to me in charlotte. >> oh, yeah. >> karen, she has a hug for you. >> even though you're a republican. >> i love you. >> you know what i'm a simple man, i love you too. >> you know what, i love you, i love michael steele because he's from maryland. >> right. >> go maryland! go maryland. >> maryland's in the house.

what do you think of michael steele? >> nobody does clinton better thatten clinton. >> john? >> from mayor villaraigosa voice votes are an imprecise science. >> i don't know what's going on over here but i want no part of it. willie, if it's "way too early," my man, what time is it? >> it's "morning joe." see you back here in charlotte tomorrow. stick around after the break for chuck. 4g lte has the fastest speeds. so let's talk about coverage. based on this chart, who would you choose ? wow. you guys take a minute. verizon, hands down. i'm going to show you guys another chart. pretty obvious. i don't think color matters. pretty obvious. what's pretty obvious about it ? that verizon has the coverage. verizon. verizon. we're going to go to another chart. it doesn't really matter how you present it. it doesn't matter how you present it. verizon. more 4g lte coverage than all other networks combined.

hey, bro. or engaging.